Oct
15
DRUUMM is in the process of selecting a consultant. After reviewing numerous unsatisfactory proposals, the DRUUMM Steering Committee is considering utilizing the services of Crossroads. Following are the notes from the September 24 phone interview with a Crossroads Ministry consultant.
(Some background of this interview is provided in the minutes from September 17 Steering Committee teleconference.)
A brief comment from Robette Dias, Recording Secretary:
Attached are the notes I took during the conference call with PaKou Her from Crossroads last week. In re-reading them I realize how much of the conversation I wasn’t able to actually capture. Its hard to do verbatim notes on an hour long conversation! I realize a lot of nuance has been lost. I just hope there is enough left here to give you a sense of the conversation. Manish represented us well, asked good, probing questions. And PaKou gave thoughtful, knowledgeable answers. So hopefully these notes are of some value.
Phone Interview with Crossroads Ministry
On the call for DRUUMM: Rev. Manish Mishra (President) Rev. Mel Hoover (Acting 2nd Vice President), Robette Dias (Acting Recording Secretary)
On the call for Crossroads: Pakou Her
Questions and remarks from DRUUMM SC are italicized.
Manish began by asking about the other groups Crossroads works with.
PaKou’s response: Crossroads started as faith based organization but has been changing in recent years. Working with a wider variety of institutions as the antiracism movement becomes increasingly secularized. Currently Crossroads works with faith institutions, city and county governments, educational institutions, non-profit organization, and social service institutions. So, although Crossroads foundations are in religious organizations, it has a growing capacity to work with other groups. In addition Crossroads continues to develop its capacity to engage in conversations about the inherent privilege of Christianity and the relationship between Christianity and racism.
What does Crossroads do?
Crossroads does a lot of training. For example, introductory workshops similar to the Jubilee 1 and the analysis training which the Jubilee 2 is based on.
Beyond that Crossroads does team building and ongoing consultation with the teams they build and the institutions the teams exist in. When Crossroads works with an institution they enter into a long term collegial relationship with that institution. Crossroads prefers not to be seen as a vendor, but rather a partner. Crossroads is committed to building the anti-racism movement. So being in right relationship with partner organizations is very important. Crossroads tries to work with partners based on what their needs are, they are organic in the way they work with folks, and all the tools Crossroads uses are subject to adaptation depending on the setting.
Manish asked about PaKou’s most recent work: She said most recently she has worked with the City of Seattle, doing team building and assisting them to bring on new people, and redeveloping the team. The big project that has occupied the last several months of her work has been Crossroads’s documentation project. She has been interviewing teams Crossroads has worked with over the last ten years to assess both the work the team has done and how well Crossroads had done to prepare them to do their work, and to find out how well Crossroads works with its partners in an ongoing way. This has been very eye opening for Crossroads and a number of changes have resulted because of what was learned in this process.
Manish asked how does Crossroads understand the scope of DRUUMM’s current needs. PaKou described how she and Crossroads understood that DRUUMM wants to create a structure that works better than the current structure. But also said that while there were a number of issues at hand for DRUUMM, structure (per se) is not the crux of the problem. What drives structure in an organization is clarity about the values and norms that bind people in that organization together. So values shape the structure. DRUUMM needs clarity about the shared values so that can inform the structure that is necessary for DRUUMM to carry out its mission. She described how a positive leadership structure with accountability would inspire people to be engaged and to be involved in expanding and growing the organization. PaKou said she doesn’t think its helpful to whittle DRUUMM down to bare bones basics because you lose what has been strong and has been built up to now. Its key DRUUMM build on its strengths to move forward.
Manish asked how would Crossroads pursue building the vision? What does the end product look like? PaKou said this was hard to predict because this is the first real conversation she has had. The first face-to-face meeting will tell Crossroads what DRUUMM is looking for, and what DRUUMM needs. Then Crossroads will develop a product based on what DRUUMM says its needs are.
Methodology
Crossroads would facilitate a remission revision process, develop opportunities for dialogue around shared values, needs, etc. pull together a range of tools to help DRUUMM to the work it needs to do (like identity caucusing). Crossroads would shepherd the process, provide intentional information transfer (provide information about what Crossroads has seen work in other settings. There are several People of Color at Crossroads who would help develop the methodology and will think through what the needs and recommendations are. While PaKou may be the primary contact to DRUUMM, Crossroads would develop a “think tank” of POC organizer/trainers who would reflect back and be involved in making recommendations.
Mel mentioned Jessica Vazquez’s work in religious systems and across racial groups and described how Crossroads does a good job of asking tough questions, especially about internalized racist oppression and working on building respectful relationships across racial lines. Crossroads advocates being respectful and learning from one another to take relationships and institutional life to another level. DRUUMM folks are great folks but maybe don’t have a lot of institutional experience. Need to do the leadership development to be successful.
Manish asked what Robette’s role would be in the process. Robette said she would participate in the process only as a DRUUMM Steering Committee member. And would not participate in the Crossroads think tank process or advisory process. She described how being at the table with multiple roles was the norm for her in her various roles in the UUA, that she had some experience sorting those thing out and being clear about what hat she was wearing in any given situation. So she will participate in the consultation process as DRUUMM leadership. Mel affirmed this and described his own experience of this dynamic and how it is typical of POC leadership in the UUA. It says something about leadership integrity, being clear about your role. PaKou affirmed that she or any other Crossroads consultant would not go to Robette to ask what she wants in the process. Robette said she trusted the Crossroads organizer/trainers to make the best recommendations and do the best job possible for DRUUMM, that she did not need to be involved from that side of the process.
Manish talked about how DRUUMM is hard on leadership, and how DRUUMM leaders are ever under critical review. Decisions will come under suspicion and review by members. What ever leaders would come up with (in terms of revision and restructure) could easily be shot down. The challenge and benefit of Crossroads being an outsider is the need to get buy in from the membership for the process and recommendations. He described how DRUUMM is Asian heavy in its leadership, and that there is less African American representation in leadership than is desirable. Some members would say the leadership is too Asian and Asian American and that the interests of African Americans are not being met.
How to create buy in so people feel invested
Pakou has relationships with a number of POC in DRUUMM. And said crossing the internalized oppression divide was key. Again this would ensure DRUUMM’s focus is on values. She talked about how she would not be trying to get people to like her. What makes us fragile and paralyzed in white institutions is white supremacy and that focusing on letting go of the need for white values and structures is what helps us cross the racial difference divide. She would not be imposing an Asian American experience on to others or teaching people about “the” Asian American experience.
PaKou described focusing on values, a common set of cultural values, would help determine the structure ultimately. Structure will evolve from this, longer more intense work is around values, structure will evolve quickly, the long hard work will be the values work.
Manish talked about the current opportunity as the one chance DRUUMM has to do this remission/restructure work, the grant is a one time blessing. So there is a lot at stake in terms of hope and dreams to move us forward.
Ongoing relationship of DRUUMM with Crossroads:
DRUUMM needs to tell the truth about itself. And Crossroads will tell DRUUMM the truth about what they find out about us and what they think would be best in terms of recommendations around restructure, etc. Crossroads will support DRUUMM and shepherd us through the process and be with us every step of the way.
Next steps moving forward would be a preliminary conversation between Crossroads (PaKou) and the Steering committee, preparing for face to face conversations at the fall conference, first with the Steering Committee again and then with the members gathered there. Initial point of contact would be an intake conversation, the fall conference would be to structure listening opportunities, listening and information gathering. Its important for Crossroads and the Steering Committee to talk ahead of time to plan for this.
After the fall conference there will be other steps and other tasks to do. Crossroads and the Steering Committee need to check in at least monthly, most likely by phone. Though face to face options should be explored. And we may find more frequent contact is necessary. If DRUUMM wants to proceed, the fee and agreement around the scope of work need to be negotiated. Crossroads has a relationship agreement that we can use a basis for our working together. Manish is comfortable with what PaKou has said. He reiterated the need to keep personal relationships separate from the consultancy. PaKou confirmed Crossroads doesn’t use personal relationships as leverage within the organizations they work with. The priority is to do community development work and build the movement. Crossroads maintains clarity of roles, friends and colleagues are not used to cull or solicit information. That would not be very ethical.
Next step, take the written Crossroads proposal, which is also a scope of work. Steering Committee will revise and get it back to Crossroads, then we can do the financial agreement. The Crossroads proposal talks about consulting fee plus expenses, PaKou says Crossroads could also do a flat fee that was inclusive of expenses. The idea is to come up with the contract before the fall conference in order to make that part of the contract But preliminary work needs to be done by the Steering Committee before the conference, need to have conversation before then. PaKou remarked what a great opportunity it is that people are already planning to get together. And that she felt she would need to be there more than one day to meet and interact with people.
Mel also talked about the need for DRUUMM to identify specific financial and resource needs based on the proposal. The UUA is doing a capital campaign to raise diversity multicultural money. So they are doing fund raising on the backs of POC, we should at least be part of driving that agenda and they should be raising and allocating money for what we think is important
If you enjoyed this post, you can subscribe to the RSS feed!
Comments
Leave a Reply